This is followed by a transcript of an interview with professor at the University of Chicago Robert Pape, who aired “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on September 14, 2025.

Major Garrett: Welcome back. We will look more closely at the problem of political violence in America. And now we have joined, glad to say, professor at the University of Chicago Robert Pope. He is the founder of the Chicago Project project on security and threats. Professor, it’s great to have you with us. Thanks for joining us. What are the trend of lines and what is the key terminology you want my audience to understand?

Professor Robert Pope: Now we are at a similar moment for what I call violent populism in America. This time is defined, above all, two factors: number one, growing tide of political violence is right and left. And just think, and I want to come back in 2002, just think of attacking the assassination of the Nancy Pelosi, a democratic leader of the house, missed her, almost killed her husband. Attempted Brett Kavanaugh, a conservative Supreme Court. Two attempts by Republican candidate Donald Trump, and then in Minnesota just a few months ago, not only attempts, but also a real assassination of democratic leaders. Josh Shapiro, Governor Pennsylvania. And now, we see Charlie Kirk killed. And what we see is this clear trend of increasing in the number of attacks, with each other, however, we also see growing tide, fundamental support for political violence and right and left that corresponds to this increase in the trend of political violence and the right of the left side. Our Center at the University of Chicago is a project on safety and threats to implement very reliable national policy for political violence- to support political violence among Americans for more than four years. We started that in the summer of 2021. Our latest surveys in May found a higher level of support for political violence and on the right and left than we have ever seen, and this is one of the reasons why I rang an alarm bell with that big supply in the New York Times in June, saying that we were at the peak of a big political embankment.

Major Garrett: And in this data, the survey, are the people who respond to your survey say, to reconcile with the political outcome I want- I will be willing to resort to violence? Is that the key point of connection?

: The key connection is a special political complaint. So we asked, only to give you an example, 39% of Democrats say that the use of the force is justified to remove Donald Trump from the Presidency. When do we go deeper to question what they think under the use of force? 55% talk about the assassination. They talk about the deadly use of force. So we use that term. On the right, we asked for the same survey. We have found that 24% of the Republicans agree that Donald Trump is justified in using the US army to suppress democratic protesters. So these are very specific questions. We have a whole host of these questions so we can really speak with a great precision about what complaints that people want to say is that the use of force is justified. We know what the meaning of that term is, and then we can see the Democrats-Reprets in cross-chains.

Major Garrett: Does your research set a point made by Senator Lankford and Senator Coons, what is the Internet accelerated and amplifier?

: It’s an accelerant, but it’s not a basic cause. So, studying this problem for five years, I have discovered that just as around the world, major social changes, it is triggered by political violence. We see this in other countries around the world, but the details of change vary. Now we are moving for the first time in the 250-year history of our country, from the democracy of the white majority, to the democracy of the white minority. In 1990 we were 76% non-Latin American white. Today we are 57% non-Latin American white. It will take another 10 years, maybe 15 if we deport a lot of unfathomable, illegal immigrants, before making a transition to a truly democracy of a white minority. Well, this generational change has happened. It started about 10 years ago, with a real generation of turns and answers Donald Trump’s rise, why his question is meteoric, why he is overwhelmed by immigration, which means stopping people crossing the border to deport a mass number of people now, because there are people on the right who want to stop or reverse this, and also to which they will be held. It’s really Taproot and that is why we need to expect- this will be left to worse with our own devices and be with us for 10 years.

Major Garrett: So this is a demographic story that creates a political return that enhances and accelerates online. Do I have that right?

: You had exactly how it should. And that is why the Internet is not important. It is a factor of reinforcement. And there is –

Major Garrett: In other words, is it too simplified to say that this is the internet?

: Exactly. Because of this, it is a few years ago, people challenged my discoveries and said: Oh no, no, we’ll just deform people. So the problem is just the internet here, so we will exhaust X, Y and Z. We have exhausted x, y and z, and you know what? I didn’t miss the rhythm. And the reason is that, yes, it’s additional- it’s like throwing gasoline on fire, but the internet is not a fire itself. Something happens, which really radicalizes our policy. And I’m sorry to say, this is a story we saw around the world, in other countries, the second time. And so this is a social change that leads to a radicalized policy that changes the winners and losers in our society in our society, leading to political violence.

Major Garrett: Professor, has always been a sign of this country, we somehow thought about ourselves as if we had this experiment that has a lot of differences in opinion, violence cramps, but in the end we move and move forward. Are you more or less optimistic about this and that basic assumption of the fundamental ability of America than you’ve been earlier?

: The future is in our hands. This is not locked with fate. That said, if we do nothing, this will get worse. The number one that we have to do is that we need our political leaders to step up. And we just saw the case, only before, where we have senators on both sides of the passage that make up a common video. Well, it’s really pretty much to condemn violence. This is important, because the leaders can restrain their own ingredients. When poorly entering the other side, our data shows that everything aggravates. This is the worst of all possible worlds, because it produces defiance. We have to step up. What would it increase? Summit between President Trump, Governor News and Governor Pritzker, a public session on which they are together condemning political violence.

Major Garrett: Professor Pope, I’m glad you’re here. Modeling of behavior is important in many contexts, in life, political and otherwise. Thank you very much. We’ll be back in just a moment.